Remove this ad

Lead

Apr 6 10 9:34 PM

Tags : :

Hi fellow members

Taking time off from painting pictures for the forth coming on the Anglican League books, I wondering about German force in VBCW, a condor legion if you like. With the BUF in "power and the pro german stance of Edward VIII, would the German government under "that corporal" send troops here to help fight with the BUF and King. I think maybe not as I think that we would see it as an foreign invasion but I could see a time, especially if things were going badly for them to "invite" them over. What do others think, is there a place for German forces, limited, in VBCW?

Pete
Quote    Reply   
Remove this ad
Remove this ad

#1 [url]

Apr 6 10 10:04 PM

I would say not officially. As the sourcebook said and I would agree with it, Englands stability would not be in the best interest of Hitler. On the other hand a "volunteer" unit of German soldiers could be as well a possibility- just not as a big German force i think.

Quote    Reply   

#2 [url]

Apr 6 10 10:50 PM

I agree with that, maybe that was what I was thinking when I mentioned the Condor Legion style force. I can see a "volunteer" force is some form, not a very large one and certainly not as well equiped as the condor legion but force none the less. Maybe I'm just barking up the wrong tree or missing the point.

Pete

Quote    Reply   

#3 [url]

Apr 6 10 11:19 PM



Panzer do a search in the forum, there is lots of talk about this.

Search under: Condor Legion and Albion Legion.

This was agreed, as you've said. No German presence, but possibly a volunteer force.

The local guys and I have yet to get our "South of Hull" game on with a BUF/Albion Legion training post and some locals that would like to see it burn.

.

Hello...DOG CHARLIE FOX, DOG CHARLIE FOX are you receiving? Over...

QUOTE
Akula: To my mind, every weapon should have a fatal flaw, otherwise its just not cricket old boy!

Memorial Miniature now for Sale
RedDeadRevolvers wonderful VBCW EVENT cards can be found: HERE
Lord Chuffington Fluff........ Orkdungs VBCW MAP (Kent/Hampshire/East Sussex/London)

Quote    Reply   
avatar

Hastings

MAD AS A HATTER

Posts: 4,583

#4 [url]

Apr 6 10 11:20 PM

Yep Id lean more towards the odd unit of volunteers rather than a whole legion. In the first place as has been said Hitler's aim is to keep Britain as an ally, but would rather it be a weak one at the moment, so its enough force to prop up the Fascist regieme- not enough for an outright win.
Secondly things are getting a little busy for Adolf elsewhere, having had his excersion to Austria, he may shortly need boots on the ground elsewhere, and he wants the German African possesions back- another potential cause of difficulty if he is over helpful to Mosley. The German Army isn't as big as we were giving it credit for, so there is a limit to commitments, particularly of specialist staff like Pilots and Tank Crews.
It might also be possible that some volunteers that turn up do so of their own accord, maybe even to get away from Adolf's regieme. We've set up the 'Duke of Brunswick' as one such character, German Aristocrat, with a following of Freikorps -ex servicemen who has fallen out of favour with the Reich and think its prudent to spend some time abroad. Given the involved blood lines of European Royalty it doesn't take much of a leap of faith to see why such a German might turn up at Edward's court and offer his services

Quote    Reply   
avatar

Rick

Advanced Member

Posts: 158

#5 [url]

Apr 7 10 12:13 AM

On the other hand, if you have german figures that you really want to use, the German state has probably been supplying arms and equipment (uniforms?) to BUF and BUF-aligned militias. Wouldn't be too out of place to have a local BUF detachment looking like Germans (might attract a few thrown eggs or worse...).

Quote    Reply   

#6 [url]

Apr 7 10 1:30 AM

People get the wrong end of the stick when the Condor Legion is mentioned. They weren't a combat unit as such. While the air elements were constantly engaged, the ground forces were primarily there to train the Spanish in the use of equipment provided and in the case of the AA units, to protect German airfields. When ground troops were committed it was usually in support of Spaniards they were training and at relatively low risk.

The numbers of troops is staggering, the legion mustered a maximum of 12k men at its strongest, while 19k Germans passed through the books. Despite this only 173 Germans were killed in enemy action, the bulk of which were aircrew.

Hitler had committed Germany to a path of neutrality in the SCW, so the risk of Germans being captured and paraded for propaganda purposes was too much of a risk to his credibility.

While there would no doubt be Germans (or indeed any other nationality) fighting on both sides in a British Civil War, they wouldn't be likely to be visually different from any other troops in the conflict. Certainly the prospect of German helmeted troops appearing in the King's army would be a propaganda coup for the other factions.

Quote    Reply   

#7 [url]

Apr 7 10 6:26 AM

Have to admit that I never realised that about the Condor Legion and I thought that these would of come up in the past so I am sorry I brought it up again, I can now see the logic in no or very little in the way of German forces and I guess that small volunteer companies is the way forward.

Once again thanks and this teaches me for ideal musing. Back to what I'm good at painting, lol.

Pete

Quote    Reply   

#9 [url]

Apr 7 10 9:57 AM

QUOTE (Jim Hale @ April 07, 2010 01:30 am)
People get the wrong end of the stick when the Condor Legion is mentioned. They weren't a combat unit as such. While the air elements were constantly engaged, the ground forces were primarily there to train the Spanish in the use of equipment provided and in the case of the AA units, to protect German airfields. When ground troops were committed it was usually in support of Spaniards they were training and at relatively low risk.

The numbers of troops is staggering, the legion mustered a maximum of 12k men at its strongest, while 19k Germans passed through the books. Despite this only 173 Germans were killed in enemy action, the bulk of which were aircrew.

Hitler had committed Germany to a path of neutrality in the SCW, so the risk of Germans being captured and paraded for propaganda purposes was too much of a risk to his credibility.

While there would no doubt be Germans (or indeed any other nationality) fighting on both sides in a British Civil War, they wouldn't be likely to be visually different from any other troops in the conflict. Certainly the prospect of German helmeted troops appearing in the King's army would be a propaganda coup for the other factions.

Panzer Gruppe Drohne saw combat action in their Pz1 tanks,only by chance though, and Condor legion elements also provided artillery and HMG support for some Nationalist actions.

The Condor legion was primarily a support group, and was also used to experiment with tactics that would later be used to good effect in the Blitzkrieg attacks of early WW2.
The Luftwaffe element of the Condor legion certainly experimented with aerial support tactics, just look at what they did to Guernica and Durango.
Big advances were made in communications during the SCW, the Comndor Legion had a specialist radio group called Imker-Horch who did a lot of signals and signals-intelligence work in Spain.

Germans also fought on the Republican side in the International Brigades (Ernst Thaelmann Batt) lots of reds in pre-war Germany, although by 1938 most of them had been shot, or stuck in concentration camps

Quote    Reply   

#10 [url]

Apr 7 10 11:09 AM

There was also definitely at least one unit of German anarchists fighting in SCW, not sure now if they made a column on their own though..

Quote    Reply   
Remove this ad
avatar

jony663

Five Star General

Posts: 875

#11 [url]

Apr 7 10 3:30 PM

Mosley and the King could form a mixed unit based on the King's German Legion. The KGL can be made up from volunteers and uniformed with a mix of British and or German kit.

Captain Hastings: [referring to marriage] You ever thought about it?
Hercule Poirot: In my experience, I know of five cases of wives being murdered by their devoted husbands.
Captain Hastings: Oh?
Hercule Poirot: And twenty-two husbands being murdered by their devoted wives. So thank you, no. Marriage, it is not for me.

http://greenfieldsbeyond.wordpress.com/

Quote    Reply   
avatar

Tadportly

Emperor of the table

Posts: 1,317

#12 [url]

Apr 7 10 3:43 PM

QUOTE (eastern barbarian @ April 06, 2010 10:04 pm)
I would say not officially. As the sourcebook said and I would agree with it, Englands stability would not be in the best interest of Hitler. On the other hand a "volunteer" unit of German soldiers could be as well a possibility- just not as a big German force i think.

This is true currently - however I suspect that if the communists/socialists got the upper hand there might be a German intervention. It also pays Germany to keep Britain weak and thus keep the conflict running.

I also believe that whilst British fascist movements might admire the German model, by definition fascism is nationalistic and thus they would not necessarily be natural allies. I often wonder what Germany's view of Nationalist Spain was when it refused to actively support Germany in WW2...

I say do you know the Bishop of Winchester? No? A very fine chap but he doesn't pass the port...

Quote    Reply   
avatar

Tadportly

Emperor of the table

Posts: 1,317

#13 [url]

Apr 7 10 3:45 PM

QUOTE (eastern barbarian @ April 07, 2010 11:09 am)
There was also definitely at least one unit of German anarchists fighting in SCW, not sure now if they made a column on their own though..

according to a recent History channel programme with a US international brigade veteran there were quite a few German communists - many of whom were executed if captured.

I say do you know the Bishop of Winchester? No? A very fine chap but he doesn't pass the port...

Quote    Reply   
avatar

DYeeles

Armchair General

Posts: 429

#14 [url]

Apr 7 10 5:20 PM

Something else not mentioned here (although it has in other threads as I remember) is that 20 years ago the 'Beastly Hun' were the enemy.

Any sizable German force will risk people turning against the faction that uses them.

'It doesn't matter how many times they go up-diddly-up-up, they're still gits'


Not all the water in the rough rude sea
Can wash the balm from an anointed king;
The breath of worldly men cannot depose
The deputy elected by the Lord.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

Durham Light Infantry

Emperor of the table

Posts: 1,593

#15 [url]

Apr 7 10 5:37 PM

I'm sure we've talked about this before.Many in the Regular Army (and others) would likely feel unhappy serving along side Germans because of the last war.

The only places I can see them is places of greatest need.The border with Scotland,Hull?,Liverpool? etc.

I could see the Army happy to use them in such places as cannon fodder

It's an issue the King doesn't need to push with the Army as they are unhappy working with BUF in some areas already.Enough straws already on the Camels back

Quote    Reply   
avatar

Bobandhisdog

Armchair General

Posts: 462

#16 [url]

Apr 7 10 5:46 PM

While there is agreement that the nazi government might not send combat troops, it seems reasonable that a contingent of SD types my be available, for intelligence work. In platoon size they could serve as advisers to troops in the field. Their gray uniforms would be a nice contrast to all the civilian dress and black.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Grey_SS_uniform.jpg

They could be training the Special Services of the BUF in how to round up and deal with communists gypsies, and religious "undesirables." As they did in the later eastern front campaign.

I am interested in Land Warfare throughout history and beyond, except the Seven Years War, in Europe.

Quote    Reply   

#18 [url]

Apr 7 10 5:57 PM

QUOTE
Something else not mentioned here (although it has in other threads as I remember) is that 20 years ago the 'Beastly Hun' were the enemy.

Any sizable German force will risk people turning against the faction that uses them.


Did Churchill not say in 1919 "Kill the Bolshie, Kiss the Hun"

Quote    Reply   

#19 [url]

Apr 7 10 6:51 PM

QUOTE (Ewan @ April 07, 2010 05:57 pm)
Did Churchill not say in 1919 "Kill the Bolshie, Kiss the Hun"

Thing is that Churchill said a lot and it didn't always add up to same thing, nor the same as everyone was thinking!

Drusus: you are a clever man!!

Cheers

Romain

Quote    Reply   

#20 [url]

Apr 7 10 7:33 PM

I find it hard to believe that any 30s Englishman would accept that any foreigner could tell him something he didn't already know. Certainly not the Germans, I mean, they lost the last show after all.

Quote    Reply   
Remove this ad
Add Reply

Quick Reply

bbcode help